Mission Employable UK

Whose Watching Our Backs?

• Deborah Collier • Season 1 • Episode 6

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This episode focuses on three powerful and insightful conversations with service leavers, who all give moving accounts of the barriers they have overcome, including the loss of limbs and time spent in prison, to achieving success beyond service life. Their deep commitment to improving the outcomes for service leavers is evident and powerful.

Understanding that support is available is critical. From employment pathways and skills translation to emotional wellbeing and community integration, Paul, Darren and Cassidy share a snapshot of their own journeys to success. 

Thank you for listening to Mission Employable UK, a podcast dedicated to ensuring your journey from serving to civvy street is smooth.

Follow us, as we chat to service leavers, employers and everyone in-between to gain real insight into life outside the barracks.


SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Mission Employable UK, a podcast dedicated to tackling the many challenges service leavers and their families face when transitioning from military to civilian life. Hosted by me, Deborah Collier, an Army veteran with lived experience. Every episode will be shaped around real questions. Which qualifications matter? How do you translate your military skills into a civilian workforce? Whether you are leaving or have already left, this podcast is the podcast to guide you. Right, lovely. Okay, so here I am once again with Forces Transition Group. This time we are down at Manchester Concord Centre. And I'm joined by the very lovely Cassidy Little from the Veterans Welfare Group. Good morning, Cassidy. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much. Good morning to you.

SPEAKER_04

Can you tell me what uh has brought you here today?

SPEAKER_00

I am an ambassador for the Veterans Welfare Group. Um that means about a year ago. That means about a year ago, they needed somebody who could talk to large audio groups of people and not come to pieces. And because I'm an actor uh and a former Royal Marine, um, I I ticked a couple boxes for them. So they now employ me as their uh their ambassador, and I turn up and I I'm a gobsite. I just uh I just talk and try and uh lean heavily on the importance of good sound advice around medical discharge.

SPEAKER_04

And what kind of is there a pattern that you're seeing? Are you seeing a similar kind of conversation of people coming through, or is it a whole range of conversations?

SPEAKER_00

The pattern that we're seeing, and we we we identified in the past year, is that um medical downgrade and then subsequently medical discharge is exceptionally confusing and complicated. It is uh, and it's not a happy place to be. And so what ends up happening is because nobody voluntarily medically downgrades themselves. So you're being you you've been given a bad hand, if you'll pardon the expression, and then you've been told to deal with it. And you don't have any knowledge around medicine, you don't have any knowledge around the legal ins and outs of losing your job, and you don't have any understanding of the med board or what you're entitled to. And as a result, different information is coming from different organizations within the armed forces, so different what the army gives different information than the RAF. And even to a point where different um kind of holding patterns that you find yourself in, you're being given different information. So one of our guys, our boots on the ground, Dean, Dean decided that he was going to get all the answers for this and say, okay. And he pops up a flare and he says, if you've been medically downgraded and you're looking at medically discharged, being medically discharged, come and ask the questions. How much are you entitled to? What category do you fall into? What is the armed forces compensation scheme? What is the med board and what can you expect on the med board? And he'll even sit the med board with you and fight your corner and say, hold on, that's not what the paperwork says. It says this. So it is confusing leaving the armed forces. It is even more confusing leaving the armed forces when you've been dealt a bad medical deal.

SPEAKER_04

And where are you based?

SPEAKER_00

The Veterans Welfare Group is based out of Manchester, but the nature of Dean's passion, the nature of the passion of the Veterans Welfare Group is he'll go anywhere and he'll talk to anybody. And thank God for our digital connectivity these days, where although the main office for the VWG is in Manchester, we can talk to anybody anywhere, and we will talk. All you have to do is reach out, get on our radar, and and we will start finding answers for you.

SPEAKER_04

And how did you find the transition out of force's life into civilian life? What prompted that?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's the irony, is that I have no memory of it. I was uh one of my injuries was a mild thematic brain injury. And when you combine that with the plethora of pharmaceutical anti-nerve, like anti-nerve pain um drugs that I was on, which have phenomenally complicated side effects. I don't have any recollection. I can barely remember my med porn. There was nobody sat next to me saying, don't worry, we got your back. That that, you know, Hasler, I'm very lucky as a role marine. Uh Hasler Company was very good with us, you know. And I I don't, I didn't make any, I didn't challenge anything. I just took what they said on uh on the surface, you know, and now years later, it's too late for me to go back for anything. But years later, I think to myself, I might have been entitled to a lot more than what I got. I literally gave a leg for the cause. I might have been able to get a lot more than what I got. But because nobody told me that I was worth more than I thought I was, I just said thank you very much, took the queen shilling, and uh went off and became an actor.

SPEAKER_04

And and how long did you serve for? How long were you?

SPEAKER_00

I was about a decade in of my life, was dedicated to the Royal Marine Commanders.

SPEAKER_04

And what was it about the Royal Marines that attracted you? What I mean, it you know, it is the pinnacle. I personally think it's a pinnacle. I've got personal friends, I've got personal friends in who are Marines, uh, and both serving, currently serving, and have have served. And uh yeah, have some great conversations with them when we catch up.

SPEAKER_00

I bet.

SPEAKER_04

Um is it was it was it that you know that pinnacle of it's so well known as being, you know, what you really would well like to aspire to when you join the forces. And and the key thing is, did you pass first time?

SPEAKER_00

I did. I did pass first time, and I was not back trooped. And um, I owe that to my training team who where I'm standing. And although at the time I believed to be very evil, uh turns out that they were incredibly efficient at making sure um that I was exactly who I needed to be before I could um go off and do the job for real. Why did I join the core? It there's a number of reasons. Now that I'm I'm I'm I've gone back to school and I'm I'm learning about some pretty interesting stuff. I it was both a product of um my own desire to prove that um that I'm more, and then combining that with really good propaganda, saying this is what the Royal Marines do. The Royal Marines jump out of helicopters, the Royal Marines crawl up on beaches, they snurgle around in the dark, they wear cam cream, and they they they do raids and they and they and they ambush and they and they climb mountains and they you know and they have the same, you know, uh 600 Marines has the have the have the same footprint as a hundred thousand, you know, USMC in this kind of grandeur of wearing the Green Beret. And I wanted that. I wanted to be Jason Bourne. And I guess I was privileged enough for 10 years to to live as a Royal Marine commander and represent that that cat badge. And and I'm and I'm very proud of that time.

SPEAKER_04

And what would you say has been the biggest challenge when you came out, and then in terms of your career, what was the biggest challenge? You've come out with an injury and which you've no recollection of. What has been the biggest challenge, would you say? Um, for from where you were to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00

Biggest challenge. Oh man, you picked a meat question. No, you picked a you know, you picked you picked a a wordy um contestant. What is the biggest challenge? Um, it turns out my biggest challenge was alcohol. I as a role marine, we're prepared for everything and we're encouraged to work hard, play hard. And I have no difficulties with working hard. But when the work isn't there, because I I chose to be an actor, so you know it's sporadic work and it's you know, you do a little bit of this in the background to make sure that you can pay the bills, but you, you know, when there's no work coming in, there's no work coming in. And your instinct is well, if I'm not working hard, I should be playing hard. And I played hard until it was a habit, until it was all consuming, and then I lost everything again and had to start from scratch and start climbing back up again. So um my biggest challenge was my relationship with alcohol, um, which feeds directly into also one of my biggest challenges, which is uh imposter syndrome, um, which also feeds itself into a question of self-worth. And it's something I see from a lot of the men that want and women, forgive me, a lot of the men and women that that wander around in these halls is not knowing their worth and having their worth mismanaged. And so, you know, you you you know, you don't you you look at the stand and you say, could I work for them? Am I good enough to work for them? And then somewhere somebody's also told you, oh, you shouldn't work for them because you can work for them and make more. So and that value is is mismanaged. And my value was mismanaged when I came out of the armed forces. Because although the world cares that you're a Royal Marine commando, at the same time, nobody cares that you're a Royal Marine commander. You need to, you need to pick up your sword and your shield, bang them together, and then get back in the fight, even if it doesn't involve a rifle anymore.

SPEAKER_04

And how and how, compared to where you were, how long has that journey taken you to get to where you are now? Did you find that years? Are you still battling that?

SPEAKER_00

It's not a finite journey. It's never going to be a finite journey. We um we as human beings have been given this gift of evolution. And so as we continue to evolve in our lives, whether it be emotionally, psychologically, uh, spiritually, even physically to a certain degree, as we evolve, right? We're ever changing. And so that journey is always happening, always has to happen. As we reconcile ego with ambition, you know, we need to, you know, we have to change with life as it's presented to us. So the journey is ongoing and always will be ongoing. The search for work is always going to be present, the search for better work, higher paying work, more comfortable lifestyle, more for my family, you know, more from me. Geez, I'm 44. I must be getting close to a midlife crisis pretty soon. So I got to be able to afford the motorcycle, right? Like that these things are constantly presenting themselves. So there is no beginning, middle, and end of this journey. There is life, and then there is life.

SPEAKER_04

So, what are you hoping to gain from today? A series of conversations, anything more than a series of conversations? What are you looking for for a particular conversation?

SPEAKER_00

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the uh forces uh for FTG, Forces Transition. I have a tremendous amount of respect for what they do. They're very efficient at giving. I love being in a room where there's a bunch of companies wanting veterans. I love that dynamic. This isn't a room where you have to go in and brag about your military service and hope somebody recognizes you. It's the other way around. You just walk in the room and they can get to assume all right, this guy's got military service and we want him. And I love that. And as I talk to the other stands, because we all talk to me, you know, we coffee, we got neighbors, you know, little, you know, we talk about the value of the veteran and that, and just the energy that is around helping veterans get into positions that they deserve because they're going to help veterans when they get in position. So there's this cascading effect. And I love it. So, what am I trying to get out of today? From a veterans' welfare perspective, I want anybody who's been dis uh who's been medically downgraded or is looking down the barrel of medical discharge, or knows if anybody who's going to be medically discharged, come and get on our radar so they can ask the questions that they don't even know they have yet. Also, to continue promoting that high self-worth of the veteran with the help of FTG and say, yes, you're in the right place. FTG talks about being the hunter, be the fucking hunter. Like get it, like go out and get it. And and they know it, and you can feel that in the room. So I love these events. I'm right at it.

SPEAKER_04

It's a wonderful energy, isn't that? That's a really wonderful energy.

SPEAKER_00

This isn't a hopeless environment. And you know, when you talk, I spoke with John earlier. Um and I spoke with him about, and he said when he walked through job fairs before FTG was around, and you know, when he was leaving, and he was a he was a you know a strong member of the armed forces. He had no idea what he was doing. There was nobody, and when I look back to mine, I can barely remember leaving the armed forces. I didn't go to any, I didn't go to any fairs.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, when that when I left, there was nothing at all like that.

SPEAKER_00

Nobody, nothing, nothing. And it was just like somebody would say, What are you going to do on the outside? I remember sitting at a Hasler company, right? Surrounded by guys missing limbs and bandages and shit like that. And I remember sitting around there and everybody, Deborah Meeting came down to speak to us. I think her name is Deborah Meeting.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yeah, one of the one of the dragons. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She came down to speak to us and she was talking to us. Um, and we all turned up to get advice from her about going out into the big bad world of Civvy Street. And her advice was get lots and lots of different strings to your bow. That was her advice. And we were all there because we were like, we want to get rich and we want you to help us do that. And what she actually was just like, I can't do anything for you. I want you to do it for yourself by continuing. And so it was a really frustrating environment where nothing was being, because in the military, they they tell you what to do. There's a clear progression. It's very simple. You turn up where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there with what you're supposed to have, the rest falls into place. And the people who don't do that, they you stop trusting them to do what they're supposed to do. Everybody who does, they're good. And then you move forward, right? Somebody says, Hey, I'm recommending you for promotion. Next thing you know, you're promoted. Next thing you know, you're recommending people for promotion. And it there's a there's fucking infrastructure for this, it just evaporates. And there's nobody helping you out here to say, how do I get back into an environment where I know where I'm going? And so now that events like this exist, it's it's saving lives. I'm so I'm so fucking bored of seeing guys taking their own lives on Facebook. So tired of feeling that sorrow and feeling that shame and feeling that those horrible feelings and watching their families come to pieces when it's possible that if somebody had just said, hey, why don't you come work for Circo? Hey, why don't you come work? You know, we'll give you a shot, right? We'll get, oh, you got some mental health issues, we got some snags for that. We got you. You know, if somebody just done that, we don't have to keep taking casualties from the wars that we fought a decade ago. And so now FTG, Veterans Welfare Group, and every company that's in there trying to hire a veteran, it's literally saving the life of somebody could be sat on their couch right now going, I have nothing to look forward to, and I'm a burden on my family. I'm gonna fucking do myself it.

SPEAKER_04

And that's, you know, if if you we could just say one life, because like you, I find it so distressing when I it's just so distressing when I save us. So how can people get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00

Veterans Welfare Group is very easy, just pop that in. Just pop pop BWG, put it into any search browser we come up, Veterans Welfare Group, that's super easy. Plus, uh John has been really, really generous with us uh with FTG. And as a result, he also helps promote us as well on his site. So we're brilliant, we're not hard to find, right? And I'm not hard to find. If you put in the word Cassidy Little, it comes up on all social media things. Brilliant. So just reach out to me.

SPEAKER_04

Right. I will make sure you also go on my website too.

SPEAKER_00

That's a lovely idea. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

Cassidy, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. No, not at all. It's my and have and enjoy the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00

I sure will. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you. I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined here at Forces Transition Group live from Manchester Concord Conference Centre by Darren Wright, who is the founder of Veterans Into Logistics. Darren, it's a pleasure to chat to you. So can you tell us about yourself and a little bit more about Veterans Into Logistics?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so my name is Darren Wright. I am the founder of Veterans Into Logistics. That's a charity I found in 2020 to support, you know, honourable veterans or ex-militude personnel who leave the armed forces who would get lost and they don't make into employment. And I set it up to uh upskill and get the people that are on like bottom to not upskill them and get them into jobs because not everyone who leaves the armed forces needs with a trade that supports them into employment, and that's why I set up veterans into logistics.

SPEAKER_04

And tell us a little bit more about your journey when you you left the military.

SPEAKER_02

My journey did you leave? I left I left a long time ago, maybe I'll tell you how long I left have they shown my age. I left in the 2004. I've done six years, I was an airborne gunner. Um joined I joined uh when I left I uh struggled. I struggled my identity, I struggled uh where I became homeless, you know. Um I admit I turned to um drinking drugs. I was in a very bad place. I didn't want to be here, I didn't want to live. I lost my marriage, I lost my relationship with children, and um I received a custodial sentence. And it was that sentence started to change my life. I wouldn't be here now. And uh when I was in prison, I got a support that I needed. So when I come out of prison, you know, my head was my head was straight and uh and I used my HCV license that I got at Lackenfield, and I used that license to rebuild my life and I got myself into employment that gives me structural stability and financial scrolls that we all need to get by in life.

SPEAKER_04

I it's a pattern that I'm seeing with a lot of military personnel, and and one of the things that I want to really shine a light on with Mission Employable UK with this series of podcasts I'm going to do is actually about the people and the organisations like yourself who've walked the walk and can talk the talk and understand what it's like when you that loss of identity, when you come out of the military, you're going from such a structured environment to then you know it's all on you. You know, it's so unstructured. You know, you're the person that's in charge of your own destiny.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you can what I what I found out on people that are support. So when you say the ones that you struggle the most, right, we need to look at them more. Why are they struggling, right? So when you join the armed forces and you get like a trade, or you become like an like an engineer, or you've got someone that you can like a helicopter. Transferable skill. They're not going to struggle that much. They walk straight to employment. The ones who tend to struggle are the ones who are gonna say who leave about a trade. My opinion trade, less academic, sort of skilled worker, they don't get access to use their LCAS because they put learning level credit three in front of them. So I think like they're getting disadvantaged straight away, you know, because they come out, they might have LCAS that they got funding that they've you know they got through the military, but they can't access it because they're not academic, skilled workers. So in 2021, I lobbied with Johnny Mercer to be allowed so you can use your LCAS to become HGV driving. And I've done it. Right. So now you can use your LCAS to become HGV driver. What I found out last year, and someone got in touch with me, is that you can't use your LCAS to be the construction industry. So, like your 360 machines, uh plant out no different types of plant because it's at learning credit level two. To me, that's discrimination against the last academic. You know what I mean? They shouldn't be putting them educational barriers. So you think somebody who comes out in the military who can't get into employment or can't use the funding, and they're a skilled worker, they're a skilled worker, give me skill training. Do you know what I mean? I'm a skilled worker. As a skilled worker, I was on 52 grand a year as a field tank and driver four years ago. I was on the same salary as a head school teacher, you know, and I didn't have to deal with Ostead, kids, teachers, reports, all that did with the field. Someone who lost school with no qualifications, you know. So the skill jobs out there. When you look at people that are working on, you know, uh is it hate you know all the different um buildings that are being put up or the construction sites? I know that is HST, the the railing down in Birmingham. Some of the lads there earning 1400 pounds a week, skilled workers. So when you look at the people that leave the military, some of the less academic, more needs to be done to get them into employment. And I'll go one step further, right? When I left the prison, I got small support leaving the prison what I did leaving the military. Right? That's a theme that's kept coming through as well.

SPEAKER_04

Different people I've spoken to.

SPEAKER_02

So there's more I got more support leaving the prison, right? Uh where uh I went from a closed prison to an open prison, then I started working, yeah, right. I believe everyone who should be getting out of the military should go to the reserve centre in the last six months or last three months. If they went to the reserve center, right, they'll learn about the reserves, it's a softer landing, right? They'll be able to find what employment is in that area, you know, they'll be able to find out what training's in that area because they all look after each other. But what happens is right, you're getting out, right, you're on guard duty for the last two months, you're getting out. And then when you get out, you're going back to a you know, city that you might have never lived, or you're going back to a location that you've not been there for years, you know what I mean? And you could you join as a regular, you don't know anything about the reserves. But me personally, if you if you come to the reserve centre, you can learn about the reserves, see what employment opportunities are there, you know. Mean and then get employment. Well I think of it like this if you've got somebody who's been in the military, they might have done four years, ten years, twelve years, twenty-two years, right? Or just say they join up for four years, they come out, right? They come out to struggle, right? They don't get a job because they come out as infantry, they're not academic, right? They're a skilled worker, but they can't get no training, right? Because there's no funding there to help them, right? They get lost, right? Or they get put shoved into supporting accommodation. That's another thing that they do. They shouldn't be supporting accommodation. Most of them are calling trapment centres, right? So they put them in accommodation, uh say they turn up end up on a drink or drugs just to because they've got nothing else going for them, right? But if you think of another scenario, if that they've done four years and they got put to the reserve center and they got so much employment opportunities that they learn about the reserves, they might make that transition into Civic Street, and they might want to stay part of the reserves. So do you know national security? If it did kick off, at least they can call them back. But if that same person comes out and ends up on the streets or ends up on drugs, you can't call them back. Call that four years of training down the drain. So me personally, they need to change it, right? And I think if they did change it, people might want to join the military. But when you see more veterans on the street or veterans in prison, and it's mainly the no like the council state kids, you know, we've seen it. So more needs to be done to support the less academic and let's give them skill training. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

One of the things, one of the key things that on one of the projects I'm working on is uh for the Ministry of Defence is looking at miscend opportunities now from speaking to multiple um military personnel that are coming out, a lot were not picked up in school that had dyslexia or ADHD, or they they just weren't picked up with those barriers to learning. And therefore, but they it didn't stop them going on to have an excellent career in the military, but it's then when they've come out of the military not really understanding what their learning styles are, the environment that would best suit them. Yeah, so so just so just tell me a bit a bit about how you're helping people. What are your what are you looking to achieve today? Nothing.

SPEAKER_02

You know, do you want to are you are you so I said a separate charity called Veterans Intelligence, that's not one runs itself. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_04

And how does it work? How does it does intelligence?

SPEAKER_02

So what veterans intelligence does it? It also it gets uh service leavers, veterans, um Elsom get HCV license, Elsom out the no driver CPC, else get into employment. I'm also part of Veterans Job World UK, which is a bit like Indeed, where it's got all different no jobs on there, um training opportunities. So any service leaver can look at the jobs. They do a virtual job fair as well, so they can engage with the know the employers, speak to employees before they leave, you know, whether serving or whether they are going to leave. They can speak to them from the barracks, from the home. They don't need to like travel anywhere because some people lack lack confidence, or when you come to these rooms, sometimes you don't make it's that noise, you don't get to sit sit down and speak to notes to someone, but they can do a virtual job fair, they can speak to no potential employers. And I think no employment plays a massive part. You know, when you think no, when COVID first kicked in, a lot of people lost their jobs who were not military, right? And a lot of people took their own lives, right? Who never because they never lost a job before, you know. Um and I always say to myself, right, how many veterans may maybe still alive today if they made that perfect transition into employment? The way that we treat our veterans is a joke, right? Especially when they get put in support accommodation. I call them in trapment centres, they're charging £500 a week per room. I trained a veteran up five, four, three, four years ago. Got my job of 38 grand a year, right? And this was for an armed forces friendly charity, right? Train him up, got my job of 38 grand a year. Um he phoned me up that night, he said he can't take it. I said, Why can't you take it, mate? He said, does if I take this job now, right? He said, I've got to pay 450 pounds a week in the room that I'm staying in. How much? He went 450 pounds a week. So next day I went down. I'm gonna score some. He said, I'll just go on my job. And he went, okay. I said I've got told you it takes it as to pay 450 pounds a week. And he went, you're not sure. How long's he been there? He's been there four years. Right? So you've been there four years. And I went, right, okay. So but can you give him a bit of grace? Can I give him like twelve weeks? Can I just let him pay hundred pounds a week instead of four hundred and fifty pounds a week? I've just gotten the job and they went, No. And I went. Do you think they were just in it to just they're just in it to get so they so they turn on and said right? So they pretend that they're veteran-friendly, yeah. But they're just in it for the money. They're in it for the money, yeah. But listen, this is a veteran's life we're talking about. Supposed to be helping them. They pretend that they can't give you support accommodation, but a lot of veterans get entrapped into these centers.

SPEAKER_04

Do you know what I mean? And it's not doing them anything, it's not doing any good.

SPEAKER_02

And it's good because what it's done, they've got they've got some on the side of uh trick straight into there, straight into being entrapped. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

So, how do they avoid it?

SPEAKER_02

How can how can they avoid it? So, what I've done is right, so I've I've helped veterans escape them places, and I've got a pack of bags, I've gotten the HTV license, and I get my job. Sleep in a truck when it's a fine error, right? How do we avoid it? Avoid it is get the training before they leave, yeah, right, so they don't have to go into them places more preparation you do. 100% so it's preparation, uh, yeah, preparation. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so anybody listening to this today, you know, I I cannot stress strongly enough. There's mountain conversations I've had where preparation is key. If you are thinking of transitioning, the sooner you start that journey, way, way before you've even signed off, start investigating.

SPEAKER_02

Don't leave it to last minute.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, start investigating what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02

I always say this, me, right? Because I'm a truck driver, because I'm not academic, but I could always have £50,000 a year, right? And you can get your license in a matter of weeks and not years. So you can get your HCV license in six weeks, you know, uh, which isn't bad and you can be on 40, 50 grand a year. But I always say, I always say this, no, I always say this, no prevention rather than cure. Do you know what I mean? Start preparing, even if you don't know, get your hate, I always say get your HCV license as a plan B. Never don't, even if you don't want to do it, get it as a plan B. Invest in yourself in the military. If you can't get it funded, invest in yourself. Do you know what I mean? Because if you leave and you've got that license, you know, you'll never go out of work. You'll never get yourself finding yourself entrapped in one of these entrapment centres. Do you know what I mean? And more does need to be done. And I think there's a lot of um, there's a lot of good charities, but there's a lot of that are just in it for the money.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely, I totally agree with you there. I have come across a couple that, you know, where the people that are, you know, the heads of these charities driving around in very nice, top-the-range cars, and which I just think there's a real moral. And there doesn't seem to be what the thing that concerns me more than anything, there doesn't seem to be any kind of formal assessing of where this money is going. You know, you know, there doesn't seem to be any checks and balances.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know what you find, what you find, right? The ones who were like doing it for the wrong reasons are not ex-military, right? The ones who are doing it for the right reasons, they were doing it, you know, it's just you find out that they are ex-military. Now, I'm not saying they're all that out, but I've come across that they're they put a name behind a veterans' chariot and when I find out that no light, and I see that they're doing it for the wrong reasons, is because the British public are very kind for it for the armed forces community. You know, they support state, state, state, and all like they support the armed forces and they do a lot of giving. And there's a lot of but like there's a lot of people that are doing it for their own reasons that hide behind. Do you know what I mean? And it is what it is.

SPEAKER_04

So just just to kind of you know wrap us up on uh because these are just a series of short conversations that we're having today. I'm really keen to just try and capture the voices of um people who can support you know veterans. So, what would be the key messages apart from prepare yourself?

SPEAKER_02

My key message is look at veterans jobboard uk, look at the training opportunities. I'm also on social media, so I'm I'm from people connect with you, Hank? No, they can so what they can do is they can connect with me as man con a mission. Manc on a mission, manc on a mission, M-A-N-C, right?

SPEAKER_04

And is that is it where's manc on a mission? Is it on the TikTok? TikTok mancone mission. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm a proud mancunion, yeah, right, right. I'm on a mission, yeah, right. And um, if they go on to Mank on a mission, they'll see me on there, they'll see me interviewing other other people, so it's not just me talking, and then you connect. You can connect with no like you can see see other people on TikTok, and um, yeah, it's all about no like working together, you know, and that's uh change lives together 100%.

SPEAKER_04

Wonderful, and on that very positive note, Darren Wright, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Oh, a warm welcome to Paul Mattson, the CEO of Hull for Heroes. Paul, wonderful to see you here, down in Manchester Concord Live with the Forces Transition Group. Tell us, first of all, your great news for Hull for Heroes.

SPEAKER_01

Uh well, we've received valor, so the um implication of that is that the government have seen that Hull for Heroes are doing a good job in our area and allowed us to help a lot more people into Yorkshire and Northlinks and Northeast Lynx with a million-pound contract to oversee that area basically.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that's fantastic. So, how was Hull for Heroes formed? Who formed it?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I formed it. So um a pure accident, really. Literally, when I left the forces, I did fall down. I ended up homeless and um turned to drinking drugs, ended up on the streets for 14 months. Um, got to a point in my life where I was going to take my life, and someone offered me help that day. Um, she was quite persuasive and pushed me forward. Helped with her husband as well, who was ex-military, who understood why I was in such a low place and helped me out. And he eventually taught me to be a builder, became a builder. Long story short, I ended up working on a TV show called the RYSOS in Manchester. We built a Veteran Street. Um, and that's where I learned that I wasn't the only one because I thought I was. Everybody lived in their own bubble. Uh literally met all the people who were helping and the people we were helping, and um turned my life around, really. And that was about 20 years, 30 years old when I had fallen down. So I'd spent a long time feeling sorry for myself, thinking I was some sort of weakling. Um, and this elation of finding whether there were a lot of people in the same state was absolutely wonderful. Then in it crap, there's loads of us basically. So went back to Hull and literally wrote something down on Facebook. Wouldn't it be good if we could do this in our area that they've done in Manchester? And it set on fire, really. So my my phone was alight. Um, everybody was saying, Paul, if anybody can, you can, and all them sort of things. I've done lots for charity over my life. Um and set the charity up basically.

SPEAKER_04

That's fantastic. And what kind of organisations do you work with? You know, what kind of people do you, apart from people that are in need from the military, do you partner with any other organizations?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean we partner with FTG, brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. FTG go out and do it, they don't just talk about it. That's the sort of people we we like to work with. We're that sort of charity and we want to get on with what we're doing and not just talk about it. Let's just get on with it and not tell people off, don't tell the government off, don't tell the council off. Just get on with what you're doing. Yeah, crack on and help as many people as possible. But we work with anybody basically. So any charity, any organisation, any um advice unit, whatever it might be, who can help the people that we help with their expertise, because we're not experts in everything, but we operate at a no-rung door, basically, and can come into our door, ask for help, and we will find you the help that will help you.

SPEAKER_04

And how do people get in touch with you? Is it through a website?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so there's it's literally everything. I mean, if you went on our website, you'll see a get help button that is there with big flashing lights. Press that button and that will get you some help. It will send a referral straight to us, a very short form. You don't have to fill out your life story, just put a very short message in, and then that'll come to our team and we'll contact you. Or this telephone or this walk into our dropping centre with a dropping centre that's open every single day that we where you can get a free tea and or coffee if you've saved in the armed forces or your family has. Sit with other people who are in the same situation and and have a chat, take the Mickey out of each other's regiments, or that same old battery. Yeah, we we even allow the REF in so um it can be any anything, and yeah, have a bit of a laugh and joke, and most people do do that from going for a tea and a coffee in a couple of weeks down the line, they'll ask for help because they've then sussed this out.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and are you seeing any kind of uh recurrent themes?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What kind of things are you seeing?

SPEAKER_01

A lot of things, a lot of the people we help are ex-army, it is mostly ex army, although we help every course, of course. Yeah, but um generally the the the younger lads that are going in and spending a short-term service are possibly have or probably have have come from a bit of trauma before they joined the service, exactly like me, ran away to the army, got some more trauma while I was in the army, left the army, and then they are now struggling back in the city where that trauma began as well. So um that's that's a general theme of people we do help, but there are also lots of other things where there is no themes, it is just is what it is, and and people are in different situations, lots of marriage breakups, that sort of thing, and and generally uh the the person who's uh most um in the wrong situation or the wrong half of a marriage is is struggling and doesn't know how to set their new life up and things like that.

SPEAKER_04

So if you were going to write a policy for government, what kind of things would you write within the policy? What do the government need to understand better?

SPEAKER_01

I think the homelessness side of things is is one of the biggest sides of the our biggest struggle is finding somewhere for someone to live, basically. Um anybody who walks into hoof heroes who is homeless, we pay that night for them to be put up and we'll continue to pay to get them on back on their feet and through the town. That could cost a great amount of money. But the the policies within councils that's written down from government is basically you have to be um something wrong with you to be able to be put onto a priority register to be uh classed as homeless in in that sense where they will put you up basically instantly. Generally, somebody who's left the armed forces, if they are physically fit, if they cannot prove that they've got PTSD or anything else wrong with them, they just back onto the street basically. So that's the struggle is finding somewhere where someone can walk into a council office if you are homeless, and regardless of you've served in the forces or anything else, if you are homeless, you are put at least somewhere that might to carry your um new life on.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, are you finding that there is predominantly people that have served in a combat zone that are struggling, or is it a whole range?

SPEAKER_01

No, it's a whole range, it is a whole range. And yes, lots of people who obviously observed in combat zones um do struggle, but is not just that. It really is. People can save a short period of time and just come out struggling. That military um infusion of when you first joined up, the they turn you into something, don't they? Basically, they they realign your life or your your um mindset, should I say, they don't realign it back to what it was before you went in, do they at all? None of that goes on. They might find you a career or whatever else, but there's none of that realignment of your your persona before you went into the military. So they come out lost, basically. And and we all believe that there's a great world out there, we'll go do this and go do that. The actual fact that all these people who come to this career session today are frightened to death because they do not know where they're going or what they're going to do. It's like what you want to be when you grow up, isn't it? To be fair.

SPEAKER_04

So it's the it's a million-dollar question, isn't it? And it's just the the conversations I've had with, because I uh been a covenant holder and uh obviously do my best to support all military families, including young people who are children of serving soldiers and not and and people who have served, but also military spouses, is a lot will say to me, I don't know where to start, I don't know where to start looking. And and I always say, think about the environment that you want to work in, think about the environment you want to be in. But also, I didn't know as a as a veteran that our all the local councils have got a duty to have an armed forces representative that can then connect you to your local employer groups who are very forces friendly. I mean, I had no idea any of this existed. And when I came out, there was just none of this, there was no FTG, you know, and I think I was just very lucky that, you know, I just happened to, you know, I did a bit of travelling and then I I lived with a military friend who, you know, had come out and was in London working for the BBC and I ended up temping. And you know, it was just the most convoluted route into kind of the what's led me to doing what I'm doing now. But I just want to touch a little bit on your journey. So did you were you your classic soldier that joined joined as a young lad straight from school?

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, so uh 17, I think, when I went in, I I ran away to the military as I mentioned earlier. Stuff was going on at at home that wasn't uh the best time, should I say, and the only way out of that situation was to get away somewhere, and really the only way out of that was to go talk to the salesman who was selling the dream as they mentioned earlier, beautiful beach holidays and all them sort of things that you was never gonna get. But I as I lived to the dream and and ran away to the military. Um just the leave-in side of things was was the big struggle. So and like I'd mentioned earlier, trauma before I went in, trauma while I was in a little bit, and then and then left, and then I was just totally lost. I didn't know which way to turn. Because of the situation before I'd gone in the military, I had no family to come home to really. Um, so I was totally on my own. Uh my military family had gone, obviously, they were behind me, and I was forward back in the city where that trauma had begun as well. So it was just a massive fall down. I I didn't know what to do, and the only way I could think of doing something is return to what I used to do when I was in the army when something went wrong and grabbed myself a pant of beer basically, and and I fell into drink. I I totally uh engulfed myself into alcohol and then addiction came and drug scaped basically, and I fell into the gutter and lived like that for 14 months. It was a really, really bad time, and it it did get to the point where that's me done. I've got no point in life at all. I'm going to take my life. And when I got to that situation, as mad as that sounds, it was in elation. I felt fantastic. I'd solved the problem. The best way to get rid of this problem is to kill myself, and and I literally wanted to do that. And this lady, this lady, yeah, the woman tapped me on the shoulder and said, Can I help? And she was quite persuasive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of sheer look, it was just a mess of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if she hadn't tapped me on the shoulder, I would have took my leg probably. I'm I'm sure what I would have done. But um, yeah, I was adamant that I was gonna do it, and it literally was a really good feeling. Once that decision was made, I felt fantastic. Release, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

All the problems had gone.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't want to drink, I didn't want to take the drugs, I didn't want none of this, but I also didn't want to go into the hostels and I didn't want to be. I was a very proud junkie, if that's the right word. If you can understand that, I don't know what it is. Oh, and felt like I needed to punish myself, but for what?

SPEAKER_04

The conversations I've had today are very similar to this. You know, just this feeling of um not reaching out and this common theme of of just feeling alone and no other option. And and yet here, the you know, all three of you are, you know, leading wonderful lives, thriving. You know, you've you probably will always have demons that you live with, but it's been in control of those demons and been able to then go on to just help others because I think the most powerful thing is when you've lived it and you've walked it and you know you can talk it, and that's the most powerful thing to help people, you know, who are you know, who are in the same position and feeling hopeless and feeling that there isn't a solution, but actually there is a solution. And there and that's what I want to cover in the next series of recordings I do with Mission Employable UK is actually there are there are people that are have gone through exactly what you're going through, and there is help and there is hope, and um, and it's just really wonderful that you've you've been recognized by Valor. I'm really thrilled. So, how does that how does that work? Do you have you got uh to is it is that for a certain amount of time?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a free year, it's a free year project. I'm hoping that um we do it fantastically, of course, and it it lasts forever and we'll continue and continue. We'll we'll work really hard anyway, whatever happens, whatever befalls, it's just like everybody's mentioned you've got a job, it's got to be done, hasn't it? At the end of the day, so we'll push it out there to us. Many people in our area and bring them forward and try and give them the same sort of power that we push out to people. Connectivity.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Connect as many people up as humanly possible.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which of course will connect a lot more people up as well. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_04

It's just a wonderful story, isn't it? For me, listening, you know, it's just such a positive, wonderful story. And I hope anybody listening to this, you know, will get in touch. Anyone that's based anywhere near Hull or any of the organizations that I've been, you know, chatting to do it to today. Paul, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05

No problem.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you for listening to Mission Employable UK, a podcast dedicated to translating your service into civilian success. Join me, Deborah Collier, an Army veteran, as we delve deeper into the key challenges, but we also celebrate the successes. Please share this podcast with our military community and follow me on LinkedIn and at Careers Ideas Limited.